Translate

Friday, November 22, 2013

1 Peter 3:21-22 - What baptism is & isn't, doesn't do and means



1 Peter 3:21 "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him."

Introduction:
In yesterday's post we considered how 1 Peter 3:18-20 explains Christ's victorious work in terms of its purpose and proclamation.  The purpose of Christ's victorious work was reconciliation (3:18) and its proclamation centers around Christ's victory over sin, hell and death (3:19-20). In today's post we will consider the ordinance of believer's baptism as explained in 1 Peter 3:21 and consider what baptism is & isn't, doesn't do & means.  

Note: If the reader is interested in delving deeper into the text of 1 Peter 3:18-22, please checkout: http://biblicalexegete.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/a-study-of-1-peter-318-22/

What baptism is & isn't
What baptism is
When you follow Peter's entire argument in 1 Peter 3:18-22, it is apparent that he is all about explaining to his readers Christ's victorious work.  The question is: how do you picture Christ's death, burial and resurrection? Baptism is a picture. A picture of what? The application and proclamation of Jesus' victorious work in the life of the believer through prior grace-given faith and repentance. 

In baptism the victory of Christ's accomplished work is being proclaimed just as Christ in the time between His death and resurrection made "public" proclamation to the demonic realm of His victory over sin and evil and what was soon to be victory over death and the grave. Christ's preaching in 1 Peter 3:18-19 occurred during his descent into the regions where the fallen angels who rebelled in the days of Noah were kept. In mentioning Noah's ark and flood as the background for that rebellion, Peter uses Noah and his family's protection in the ark as an illustration of salvation from Divine wrath. The ark of safety and work of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection both functioned to save those who believed upon God's salvation. 

In 1 Peter 3:21 we see baptism described as a picture in the following English versions:
1. (KJV) "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..."

2. (ESV) "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you..."

3. (NKJV) "There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism..."

4. (NLT) "And that water is a picture of baptism...."

5. (NIV) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also...."


6. (NASB) "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you...."

The word used to describe what baptism is in all the above English translations is found only one other place in the New Testament - Hebrews 9:24 "For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." The word in Hebrews 9:24 is used to show how the Old Testament tabernacle here on earth was a picture, symbol or copy of the true tabernacle in heaven. 

What Baptism isn't 
If Baptism is meant to be a picture, symbol, sign or pattern, then it cannot by itself be anything beyond what it signifies.  Baptism is the sign of the New Covenant salvation administered to those who have experienced New Covenant salvation by the New Birth (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 27; John 3:1-8; Acts 2:28; Colossians 2:12; Hebrews 8).  To make the act of water baptism more than a picture or symbol is to take it beyond the intended meaning of the New Testament. Certainly the Lord affirms and assures the believer by the scriptures and His indwelling of them as they follow the Lord in obedience. (John 14:21) The one who follows through in obedience to believer's baptism is able to have an open heaven much like Jesus had when He modeled baptism in the Gospels.  However the waters of baptism and the baptism itself confer no salvation, but signifies to all that salvation by grace through faith has already occurred. 

What baptism does is re-enact the prior miracle of regeneration and saving faith that takes place when by grace through faith a sinner trusts in Christ and is saved from the wrath of God. (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) That miracle of the new birth is sometimes described in scripture as the Holy Spirit uniting the believer or baptizing them into Christ at salvation. (1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Galatians 3:27; Titus 3:5) The confusion among God's people over this issue arises from failing to recognize such distinctions: resulting in teachings such as baptismal regeneration or some other types of variations. 

Different denominations and groups try to make baptism something that it is not:

1. It is not a saving sacrament that makes a person right in God's sight - i.e justification

2. It has no power to wash away original sin 

3. It is not a power source for regenerating the human heart. 

4. It is not to be associated with being the means through which God raises a spiritually dead sinner to be a new creation in Jesus Christ

Now how do we know baptism is not the source of justification, cleansing away of original sin, power source for regenerating the heart nor making a dead sinner a new creation? Because of what Peter writes next in 1 Peter 3:21 "....not the removal of dirt from the flesh.....".  Why would Peter go to the trouble to define what baptism is not? To insure that everyone reading would be clear on what baptism is - a symbol, pattern, picture, anti-type, pattern and sign of what it signifies: Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

What baptism doesn't do
Therefore if baptism is to be regarded as a symbol, then that means it cannot save a sinner.  Again consider what Peter says: ...."not the removal of dirt from the flesh...." Baptism is essential for testifying about salvation, however it cannot do anything other than what God has ordained it to be: a picture of an invisible work of the Spirit in the believer's heart and the Christian's public profession of faith. How do we know that? Consider what Peter says next: "not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." 

What baptism means
Baptism provides a public forum for a Christian to make their faith public and to pledge to the Lord that they will live in obedience to what he tells them to do.  How do we know that? Consider yet again Peter's words in 1 Peter 3:21: "but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (NASB). Other versions, such as the KJV, read "the answer of a good conscience toward God". Either rendering is a good translation and describes what only can be done by a true believer: namely the desire to have a good conscience or to interact with God from a good conscience. 

Only Christians coming into baptism have a conscience that has been sprinkled clean, not by the waters of baptism, but by the blood of Jesus Christ. How do we know this? Consider Hebrews 9:14 "how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"  

Furthermore Peter ends 1 Peter 3:21-22 with these words: "through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him".  What Peter is reminding his readers of here is that the new birth because of what Christ accomplished in his resurrection and is received as a gift from God by faith. (1 Peter 1:3, 23) Baptism by immersion is the New Christian convert's opportunity to pledge to God a life that will conform to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, His word and the local church body of which he is joining.  This last point is gleaned from what follows in 1 Peter 4-5 regarding matters pertaining to Christians functioning together in the local church. 

Conclusion:
In today's post we have attempt to Biblical answer from 1 Peter 3:21-22 what baptism is, isn't, doesn't do and means.  

1. Baptism is a picture of what Jesus by His Holy Spirit has accomplished by grace through faith in the life of a new convert. 

2. Baptism isn't a sacrament of salvation conferring the cleansing away of original sin, or justification, or regeneration. Peter's negative statement of it not having the ability to wash away dirt and filth helps us see what it is not.

3. Baptism doesn't save, but rather re-enacts for seeing eyes the previous miracle of salvation in a person's life.  Baptism has no power or effectual working in and of itself.  Scripture alone is the sole means the Holy Spirit uses to raise dead sinners to saving faith and repentance in Jesus Christ.

4. Baptism's meaning then is: public profession of faith, the new convert's first major step of Christian obedience following their prior salvation and the believer's entryway into the membership of the local church. 

41 comments:

  1. I beg to differ.

    "Baptism now saves you." 1st Peter.

    Acts 2:38 says that we are given the Holy Spirit and the forgiveness of sins in Baptism. Galatians 3:39 (I believe) says that "those who have been baptized have put on Christ."

    Yes it is a sign. But God is also doing something in Baptism. God is not into empty religious ritual. Jesus never commanded us to do anything, where He wouldn't be present in it, for us.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Old Adam: What we disagree on is whether or not there is a time delay between the "sign" (baptism) and the thing signified (salvation). The Lutheran viewpoint views baptism as the place where the Spirit meets the sinner and by the scripture being spoken over the person in conjunction with the baptismal rite, the person is regenerated unto saving faith.

      I'm aware to that Lutherans believe that salvation can occur with or without baptism, because it is the Word that regenerates, not the waters. With that said, I think were we differ is that a). I see scripture teaching a time delay between one's salvation and one's baptism, whereas you would tend to see them as simultaneous. b). I believe scripture alone is used by the Spirit to regenerate the human heart unto saving faith. You would teach the scripture in conjunction with or without baptism.

      Finally, though I do not see baptism as a saving sacrament, yet it is not the case that I don't see baptism being of tremendous spiritual benefit in the life of the Christian. The Spirit illuminates the believer to who they are and Whose they are. Jesus' baptism gives us a prime example wherein once He was baptized, He could now operate under an open Heaven.

      To re-enact what has already occurred in salvation opens the way for the Spirit to bear further witness to the new convert of the reality of his or her already redeemed identity. Oftentimes too, the Spirit can use water baptism to encourage the faith of those witnessing the event and reminds all believers of their role in the great commission. (Mt 28:18-20)

      Delete
  2. Hi Pastor Mahlon,

    I reviewed your post. I found it very interesting. I decided to do a paragraph by paragraph Lutheran analysis of it on MY blog. I think you and your readers will find it interesting:

    http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2014/01/the-baptist-interpretation-of-i-peter.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Brother Gary: I'm humbled by your wish to use my post. It is in the Lord's service.

      Delete
  3. "Corresponding to THAT, Baptism now saves you..."

    What is the "that" that Peter is referring to? In your post, you state that "that" refers to this: "The application and proclamation of Jesus' victorious work in the life of the believer through prior grace-given faith and repentance."

    However, the English Bible translations that you use later on in the article to support your argument don't agree with you. What do your references say that Peter is referring to when he says "corresponding to THAT, Baptism now saves you"?

    4. (NLT) "And that water is a picture of baptism...."

    5. (NIV) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also...."

    Amen, Pastor Mahlon! The "that" in verse 21 is referring to the WATER in verse 20! Did you notice this? Therefore, Baptism corresponds to the waters of the Flood through which eight people were brought through safely!!

    Your own reference confirms the orthodox Christian interpretation of this passage.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: Yes I noticed "that". The whole point of my post is though that the word "that" is demonstrating that the relationship between salvation and baptism is like the relationship between salvation and Noah's ark. The ark is a portrait of Christ, the ark of our salvation. Baptism is a portrait of that portrait. Baptism's relationship to Christian salvation is a portrait, like the Ark is a portrait. Peter as a good Jewish author is exercising parallel thought here to drive home the central thought of Christ being the believer's salvation, whether O.T or N.T.

      Delete
    2. You are missing the point, Pastor. YOUR references clearly state that the "that" in verse 21 is referring to the "water" of verse 20, not the "ark". If your references are correct, and 85% of the world's Christians agree with your references, then: "Baptism which corresponds to eight people being brought safely through the waters of the Flood, now saves you."

      Delete
  4. You said, "However the waters of baptism and the baptism itself confer no salvation, but signifies to all that salvation by grace through faith has already occurred."

    Partly true; the waters of baptism do not save us. Baptismal water does not contain magical powers. But the Word of God that destroyed the entire world in the Great Flood is the same Word that forgives sins and saves sinners...infants, children, and adults...who come, or are brought through the waters of the New Covenant: Baptism!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: Your interpretation breaks down due to the fact the we do not see any Word spoken in conjunction with the baptism of 1 Peter 3:21. The person getting baptized is already a Christian. They are pledging a good conscience - one which has already been washed in the blood of Jesus.

      Delete
    2. Baptism without the Word is just plain, ol' water. Baptism ALWAYS includes the Word.

      If your church immerses people under water in your baptismal tank without saying, "I baptize you in the name of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost", you are not baptizing, you are just getting people wet.

      Delete
  5. You said, "In mentioning Noah's ark and flood as the background for that rebellion, Peter uses Noah and his family's protection in the ark as an illustration of salvation from Divine wrath."

    Ok, I'll agree with that. The ark represents safety. And yes, they were saved from divine wrath, but verse 21 doesn't talk about safety and wrath, it talks about cleaning your skin! So, is Peter referring to the safety inside the ark when he uses the word "that"...or is he referring to "being brought safely through WATER"?

    So if Peter is using "that" to refer to water, then the following statement in verse 21 makes perfect sense:

    Baptism, which corresponds to the water in the Flood, saves you, not by removing dirt from your skin, but as an appeal to God for a new conscience.

    What does "conscience" stand for in this passage? Isn't our conscience the same thing as our soul?

    Doesn't that fit better with the context of the passage and make a lot more sense?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The question I think you would have to answer would be is this conscience converted or unconverted? I would say this person has a converted conscience, a conscience already cleansed by the blood of Christ in prior saving faith. One cannot pledge something good that has not been declared justified by faith upon the basis of the shed blood of Christ. (Heb 9:14-15)

      Delete
    2. You are not accepting the passage as written. You are forcing the passage to fit with your preconceived doctrine.

      Delete
  6. You said, "1. (KJV) "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..."

    Fundamentalist evangelicals LOVE the KJV! Why? Because it uses outdated words that no one today really knows for sure what they mean. However, even using this translation, Baptism is still a "figure" of the eight people being brought safely through water (SAVED). So visually, baptism can be a "figure" of what happened in the Flood to Noah and his family, but it, Baptism, still saves us, just as Noah and his family were saved "brought through the water.

    (Pastor Mahlon is NOT a fundamentalist, just to be clear.)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: Being that Baptism is a figure or sign of a greater reality, then it is the reality - i.e the accomplished work of Christ applied by the Holy Spirit in Spirit wrought saving faith. It would seem, dear friend, that a figure is not designed to impart salvation, but rather is designed to point to the reality of a salvation already imparted.

      Delete
    2. The passage says that Baptism is a figure of eight persons being brought safely through water, it does NOT say that Baptism is a figure of your previous reception of belief.

      Accept God's Word as he said it, Pastor, not as you would prefer that he had said. Your comments continue to say this: "It can't mean that! It can't mean what the plain, simple interpretation says, because that would invalidate my belief system."

      Accept God' Word FIRST, Pastor, and then establish your doctrine.

      Delete
  7. You said, "Different denominations and groups try to make baptism something that it is not:

    1. It is not a saving sacrament that makes a person right in God's sight - i.e justification."

    The plain, simple interpretation of over 100 passages of Scripture in the New Testament which mention baptism or one of its variants say otherwise. And there is a plethora of historical evidence that the Early Christian Church ONLY understood baptism as God's act of forgiving sins and saving sinners.

    There is no evidence of any early Christian denouncing Baptismal Regeneration; proclaiming that Baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Baptists refuse to recognize this glaring lack of historical support for their viewpoint, and blame this lack of evidence on a "Great Catholic Conspiracy" to destroy all evidence of the early "true" believers who held, of course, Baptist doctrine. Baptists are forced to go to extraordinary lengths and mind-boggling grammatical gymnastics to re-interpret the Word of God to support their sixteenth century non-salvific "ordinance" of baptism.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: The Baptist's distinctive of believer's baptism is connected to what we teach regarding the nature of the church and of salvation. We teach that the church is composed of all truly regenerate church members and that in regeneration, the Spirit works forth regeneration in the human spirit that simultaneously works forth saving faith in freeing the sinner from their bondage to sin to a willing response to Jesus Christ.

      Our distinctive of believer's baptism is couched in those two historic teachings which have been taught from before the sixteenth century.

      Delete
    2. Lutherans believe the exact same teachings. However, we baptize "all nations" whereas Baptists only baptize those who can verbally prove the existence of faith in their heart. Instead of accepting the literal Word of God, Baptists have set up a work, a road block, prior to fulfilling God's command.

      Bottom line: Baptists do not believe in the supernatural power of the Word. The Word itself does not save in Baptist theology, only the understood, conceptualized MEANING of the words of God can save.

      Delete
  8. You said, " It (baptism) has no power to wash away original sin."

    Not according to I Peter 3:21 and Titus 3:5

    You said, "It (baptism) is not a power source for regenerating the human heart."

    The power source is not the water, the power source is the All-Mighty power of the Word of God, sharper than any two edged sword, which creates faith in the hearts of spiritually dead sinners...infants and adults. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Salvation and faith are not ubiquitous in the air that surround us. A sinner does not just reach out and grab faith. God brings faith to the sinner and ONLY does so by his Word. Baptism is nothing other than God's Word, accompanied with the visible act of applying water.

    You said, "It (baptism) is not to be associated with being the means through which God raises a spiritually dead sinner to be a new creation in Jesus Christ "

    The term "born again" is mentioned three times in the entire New Testament, whereas baptize, baptism, etc. are mentioned over 100 times. Why do Baptists emphasize the term rarely mentioned by God, but treat the act that is mentioned almost as many times as the word "believe"...as an afterthought to be done when one gets around to it.

    Something's wrong here!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: So what if the term "Born again" is mention three times. That is still enough times to merit using it as a major term. Furthermore, in those usages, the wider context shows that the term is significant enough to be used in describing what salvation.

      Delete
    2. Lutherans agree that "born again" is an important term. The point is that Baptists greatly emphasize this term, used only three times in the Bible, and rarely mention the word "baptize" which is mentioned more than 100 times.

      If being born again by a mature, informed decision or profession of faith is the primary manner that God saves, why didn't he emphasize this fact more instead of CONSTANTLY talking about baptism?

      Delete
  9. You said, "Now how do we know baptism is not the source of justification, cleansing away of original sin, power source for regenerating the heart nor making a dead sinner a new creation? Because of what Peter writes next in 1 Peter 3:21 "....not the removal of dirt from the flesh.....". Why would Peter go to the trouble to define what baptism is not? To insure that everyone reading would be clear on what baptism is - a symbol, pattern, picture, anti-type, pattern and sign of what it signifies: Christ's death, burial and resurrection."

    No, Pastor, Peter wants to make sure that everyone understands that Baptism is NOT just a symbolic cleansing of your skin...Baptism "saves you"!"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Brother: I still stand by what I wrote in the post. As I said before, baptism's relationship to salvation in the passage is the same relationship as Noah's ark - that of portrayal.

      Delete
  10. You said, "Therefore if baptism is to be regarded as a symbol, then that means it cannot save a sinner. Again consider what Peter says: ...."not the removal of dirt from the flesh...." Baptism is essential for testifying about salvation, however it cannot do anything other than what God has ordained it to be: a picture of an invisible work of the Spirit in the believer's heart and the Christian's public profession of faith. How do we know that? Consider what Peter says next: "not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God."

    If we continue reading the passage, it will explain by whom and how this pledge or appeal is made. This appeal or pledge is our access to God himself. How? By praying the Sinner's Prayer. By asking Jesus into my heart? No!

    Baptism is our direct access to God, not by any good work that we perform, but solely by the power of the Resurrection of his Son, Jesus Christ.

    ReplyDelete
  11. You said, "Baptism provides a public forum for a Christian to make their faith public and to pledge to the Lord that they will live in obedience to what he tells them to do. How do we know that? Consider yet again Peter's words in 1 Peter 3:21: "but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (NASB). Other versions, such as the KJV, read "the answer of a good conscience toward God". Either rendering is a good translation and describes what only can be done by a true believer: namely the desire to have a good conscience or to interact with God from a good conscience."

    In Baptism, we appeal, through the access to God granted to us by Christ's resurrection, for a new conscience. What is our conscience? In other passages of Scripture, the conscience is synonymous with the soul. Through our Baptism we receive a good, or clean, soul!"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. My dear friend, there is only one way to have a good clean soul, through the blood of Jesus applied at saving faith. (Heb 9:14-15)

      Delete
    2. Agreed. And that it the very PURPOSE of Baptism: applying saving faith in the washing of regeneration.

      Delete
  12. You said, "Baptism by immersion is the New Christian convert's opportunity to pledge to God a life that will conform to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, His word and the local church body of which he is joining. This last point is gleaned from what follows in 1 Peter 4-5 regarding matters pertaining to Christians functioning together in the local church."

    There is not one single passage of Scripture that clearly and concisely states that Baptism is our act of pledging ourselves to God or that it is our act of public profession. The Bible does very clearly state, however, that...BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Bro. Gary: I beg to differ. The passage states: "The pledge of a good conscience" or in some other rendering "pledge from a good conscience". Either way, the only thing that can ensure a clean conscience going into the baptismal tank is that of a prior cleansing - Christ's objective atoning work of the sprinkling of His blood (Hebrews 9:14-15). That objective work is applied by the Spirit wrought work of the New Birth and saving faith receiving such a work. Again the water baptism portrays and illuminates to the new convert the reality of their conversion.

      Delete
    2. No, Pastor. You receive the clean conscience IN the baptismal tank!

      That is what the plain, simple interpretation of the text says. If you would stop reading into the passage what you want it to say, and just accept what it actually says, you would see that.

      You are a good man, and a devout pastor of the Word. I pray that one day God will help you to see that your interpretation cannot be scriptural because no Christian, including the Apostles themselves, ever heard of the Baptist purpose of Baptism.

      You have started with one group of passages that clearly state that we are saved by faith when we believe and re-interpreted any passage that discusses Baptism with your preconceived idea that believe is intellectual assent, instead of a miraculous, supernatural work of God.

      Delete
  13. You said,

    Conclusion:

    In today's post we have attempt to Biblical answer from 1 Peter 3:21-22 what baptism is, isn't, doesn't do and means.

    1. Baptism is a picture of what Jesus by His Holy Spirit has accomplished by grace through faith in the life of a new convert.

    2. Baptism isn't a sacrament of salvation conferring the cleansing away of original sin, or justification, or regeneration. Peter's negative statement of it not having the ability to wash away dirt and filth helps us see what it is not.

    3. Baptism doesn't save, but rather re-enacts for seeing eyes the previous miracle of salvation in a person's life. Baptism has no power or effectual working in and of itself. Scripture alone is the sole means the Holy Spirit uses to raise dead sinners to saving faith and repentance in Jesus Christ.


    Gary's orthodox Christian/Lutheran conclusion:

    The Baptist view of Baptism is certainly plausible from reading the Bible, but it requires using one group of passages to completely re-interpret the plain, simple meaning of another very large group of passages that, to any non-biased reader, state that God forgives sins and saves sinners in Baptism.

    If you sat a person down with the Bible, who had never heard of the Bible or Christianity, and asked him to read the New Testament, do you REALLY believe that he would come away thinking that the only purpose of Baptism is as a public profession of faith; an act of obedience; or even an act of sanctification/enrichment of your faith??

    I highly doubt it! Did God really make salvation SO complicated?

    Lastly, don't you find it amazing, that Baptists must spend so many paragraphs, as Pastor Mahlon has done above, explaining away God's very short, very simple statement: BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Dear friend: Was your Lutheran view self-evident to you in the beginning? Yes God makes salvation simple, however it is not comprehended apart from the Spirit's work and the exposition of the Word (which I know you believe). I could say the same in response to the Lutheran viewpoint: plausible, however not as probable as the Baptist reading.

    I'll admit at times I can be wordy:) However as preachers, teachers and writers we do have an obligation to unpack the words of God in the Bible. To not unpack the phrase "Baptism Now saves you" would do a disservice to readers and listeners.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Respectfully, Pastor Mahlon, I would not use the word "unpack" for what you have done to this passage. I would use the words "disassemble" and reconstruct".

    Why is it that there are so many "problem verses" in the New Testament for Baptists? Why are there so many passages of God's Word that were so poorly stated by God, so poorly written down by the author, or so poorly translated by the translators, that Baptists must spend multiple paragraphs to explain away the meaning of a simple statement such as "Baptism now saves you"?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dear Brother Gary: What the text says and what the text means what it say are two distinct things. What God has said in the text, in the words, phrase etc is what is written. The meaning is there in the words. We are all responsible for exegeting or "leading out" that meaning through bringing in other scriptures that shed light on that text.

      Besides, with respect to Orthodox Lutheranism, no one would accuse you of trying to explain away the apparently simple meaning of the scriptures by the way you appeal to the Formula of Concord to aid in interpreting the text. Lutherans, like Baptists, write reams of material to explain and set forth the truths of scriptures for successive generations.

      Yes, there are times where we should balance lengthy discourses will simple, terse statements. God's Word is simple and plain as the Spirit aids the reader in its understanding. However that does not mean every verse is going to be as easy as others.

      Delete
    2. "...with respect to Orthodox Lutheranism, no one would accuse you of trying to explain away the apparently simple meaning of the scriptures by the way you appeal to the Formula of Concord to aid in interpreting the text."

      Please provide me with one passage of Scripture about which Lutherans have completely re-interpreted the passage to say something other than the plain, simple interpretation.

      Luther chastised the Catholic Church for adding to Scripture. I believe that Luther would be equally dismayed with all the "additions" that Baptists have added to Holy Scripture. How can one turn "Baptism now saves you" into "Baptism is a picture of when you accept/profess Jesus Christ in(to) your heart"?

      Delete
  16. I have a challenge for you, Pastor: Present me with a New Testament passage regarding Salvation/Justification or Baptism, and let's see if Lutherans have any "problem" verses that on the surface, in their plain, simple interpretation, do not agree with our doctrine.

    Let me give an example: "Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

    Lutherans would not change one word of this passage. Believing on the name of Jesus is ALL that is required for salvation. Baptism is NOT mandatory for salvation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Amen on your quotation of Acts 16:31. However I think our ongoing discussion of 1 Peter 3:21 challenges your assertion that all passages of scripture do not require explanation, clarification and some measure of exposition. I would classify 1 Peter 3:18-21 as probably one of the more difficult passages of scripture.

      For example, on the very difficult passage of 1 Peter 3:19-20, there are nearly 20 different takes on that text.One of the marks of Divine inspiration is the fact we ever need the Spirit to interpret it rightly. Even the great Apostle Peter himself, for instance, said some of Paul's letters are difficult to understand (2 Pt 3:16).

      Delete
    2. I Peter 3:21 states that "Baptism now saves you." Lutherans believe that statement as literally as we do, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".

      In Baptism God saves you.
      Believe on Jesus Christ and you WILL be saved...immediately!

      Neither of those passages need explanation, except when a Baptist or evangelical tries to tell us that we can understand the second passage literally but the first passage must be explained away because God "really didn't mean what it seems to say."

      Delete
  17. This comment stands out - - -

    “If Baptism is meant to be a picture, symbol, sign or pattern, then it cannot by itself be anything beyond what it signifies.”

    This is sheer absolute nonsense and craziness. Something cannot be both a symbol and concrete at the same time – huh, what? That’s just plain foolish. How about the flag – it is a symbol of the country, yet soldiers willingly fight and die just to keep it – the cloth – from touching the ground!!!

    This just goes to you how much Arminianism can completely blind even an otherwise good Christian!

    First Peter 1:3 . . . . God “. . . has caused us to be born again.” If it is God doing the work of making us born again, then He can do so in any manner He pleases – including through water and the word. Plus, he can cause this faith in anyone, anywhere, at anytime in their life, even before they are born; i.e. Isaiah, Jeremiah, David, John the Baptizer, etc....

    I wish confessional Lutherans would not argue or debate with Arminians...who are addicted to their foolish and unBiblical ill-logic! I know, I was one for a while, and much of my immediate family still is!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Dear friend, the flag's symbolism and its commonality with what it represents does not make it an empty bare symbol. At the same time, we all would agree that the flag is not the country either.

    Can God use whatever means he chooses. Of course. Could he even use baptismal water. Yes. Do I see scripture saying such. No. It is the Word, and the Word alone that is the sole means used by the Spirit of God in bringing conversion and faith to a lost sinner. (Ro 10:17)

    The appeal of a good conscience or from a good conscience refers to one that is already clean, not being clean by the baptism. I stand by what I wrote: that Peter's whole point is to show what Baptism is by showing what it is not - namely the cause or means of salvation, but rather the signifier of the salvation of the one coming to the baptism.

    ReplyDelete